Welcome back to the TJRwrestling retro PPV reviews where we are covering every WCW Pay-Per-View during the “Monday Night War Era”. I just covered WCW Halloween Havoc 1996, which was an alright show, but nothing spectacular. It did see the return of “Rowdy” Roddy Piper at the end, which was the big angle moving forward. This is WCW’s attempts at creating an event as the WWF had in the Royal Rumble, and this is the second one I will be covering for the site. “Macho Man” Randy Savage was the winner of the match in 1995, and he actually won the title, rather than just getting a title shot. You can catch that and all other WCW PPV’s we have covered here. How will the three-ring, 60-man Battle Royal hold up this year? Let’s find out!
WCW World War 3
November 24th, 1996
The show starts with a package running down the matches on the night.
We are joined by the announce team on the night which is the usual suspects of Tony Schiavone, Bobby “The Brain” Heenan, and “The American Dream” Dusty Rhodes. When the main event goes down, more will join them to call the action. They talk about the brewing collision course between Hogan and Piper that will be taking place at Starrcade next month. They go down to the ring for the first match.
J-Crown Title Match
The Ultimate Dragon (c) (w/Sonny Onoo) vs. Rey Mysterio Jr.
This was a title match for the J-Crown Championships, which was a series of 8 titles from different promotions spread throughout different countries that were defended on WCW TV from time to time.
They lock up and have a standoff with neither man gaining an advantage. Dragon locks in an armbar and starts to drive his knee into Mysterio’s shoulder. He hits a scoop slam with an elbow drop and covers for a two count. Mysterio gets back to his feet and both men exchange a series of athletic moves and we have a stalemate once again. Dragon hits a dropkick that takes Mysterio down to the mat. He throws Mysterio into the corner and dropkicks him to the outside of the ring. Mysterio regroups on the outside and comes back in, but Dragon is there to take him down with a German Suplex. He throws Mysterio into the ropes and tosses him into the air and Mysterio slams down to the mat. Dragon continues the assault with a spinning backbreaker, which Mysterio sold like a million bucks. Dragon comes down with a knee to the back and puts Mysterio in a half crab. Dragon picks him up for a powerbomb and drops him down throat first on the ropes behind him. Hellacious move. He hits Mysterio with a Spinebuster and gets him in a big swing. Mysterio rolls to the outside, but crawls back in quickly. Dragon hits a Brainbuster and he covers him for a two count. He goes for a second one, but Mysterio rolls him up for a two count. Dragon is quick to get back to his feet and continues to work on the leg. Dragon picks him up and hits a leaping Tombstone Piledriver, but Mysterio gets the shoulder up. He kicks Mysterio out of the ring again and comes out with a splash, but Mysterio rolls out of the way. He gets some offense in, but it’s short-lived and Dragon sends him to the guardrail. He gets back in the ring and comes back out with a splash on Mysterio’s prone body. He rolls Mysterio back in the ring and puts him up top and hits a Frankensteiner, but Mysterio kicks out at 2. Dragon hits him with a running Powerbomb with Mysterio kicking out again. Mysterio tries to count a comeback and hits a dropkick followed by a splash. He hits a springboard dropkick that sends Dragon to the outside and he is right out behind him with a splash. Back in the ring, both men exchange roll-ups for two counts. Mysterio hits a Hurricanrana, but Dragon gets a shoulder up. He hits Mysterio with a Dragon Suplex and hits another Sitout Powerbomb to pick up the win at 13:48.
Winner and STILL J-Crown Champion: Ultimate Dragon
Match Rating: 4/5 Stars
Collective Thoughts: Mysterio took an absolute beating in this match. Dragon hit him with some high impact offense that looked great, but couldn’t seem to put Mysterio away. Mysterio mounted a little comeback towards the end, but Dragon caught him one too many times and he retains the title. Mysterio and Malenko had a great match to open Halloween Havoc last month, and here is another example of how the cruiserweight division was a true standout in WCW. Great match to kick off the show. I never get tired of giving these matches 4 stars and up.
Mean Gene is backstage and is joined by Diamond Dallas Page, but not before he pushes the WCW website and the WCW hotline. Page comes in and Gene asks about the NWO trying to recruit DDP. He said everyone is trying to recruit the best, and that The Diamond Cutter is the best move in wrestling. Gene says he has to address Eric Bischoff joining the NWO on Monday Night. Page says he is worried about it, but he is worried about winning World War 3 tonight and winning the WCW World Title. Gene throws it back down to the ring.
Chris Jericho (w/Teddy Long) vs. Nick Patrick
Jericho will have one arm tied behind his back for the match. This stems from Patrick costing Jericho a match against Syxx at Halloween Havoc when he was aligning with the NWO.
Both men go face to face in the ring with Patrick slapping Jericho, and Jericho takes him down with some offense. Jericho starts a “Patrick Sucks” chant, as Patrick puts his hand up for a test of strength. Jericho puts him in a hammerlock, but Patrick reverses it into one of his own. Jericho fights out and knocks him down to the mat with a shot to the head. Jericho hits an arm drag and tries to follow up, but Patrick rolls out of the ring. He exchanges words with Teddy Long and the two share some shoves. Patrick gets back in the ring and slaps Jericho again. That pisses Jericho off and he takes Patrick down with a leg sweep and sends him to the outside. He throws Patrick into the ring post, but he moves when Jericho charges in and he hits his good arm. Patrick rolls him in the ring and actually hits some sound offense and works on the bad arm. He gets Jericho in the corner and hits him with some rights and lefts. Jericho hits Patrick as he comes back in and takes him down with a kick to the face. Jericho slams his head into the corner for a ten count. Patrick mounts a comeback and hits Jericho with an elbow and climbs to the top, but Jericho is there and throws him off. Jericho hits a superkick and picks up the win after 8:02.
Winner: Chris Jericho
Match Rating: 1.5/5 Stars
Collective Thoughts: It was just a gimmick match that didn’t have a lot going on throughout. Obviously, Nick Patrick is a referee, but he actually got some offense in. Jericho did a great job keeping his arm behind his back and fought back well from the times Patrick did knock him down. Jericho winning was the right move.
The announcers talk about the “Rowdy” Roddy Piper and “Hollywood” Hogan confrontation that will be happening tonight and what role Eric Bischoff will play in the whole thing.
Gene is in the aisleway and is joined by “Nature Boy” Ric Flair, who is on the shelf with an arm injury. Gene talks about Flair’s future, and Flair says that Gene shouldn’t worry about that. Flair says the theme of the show tonight is Word War 3, but in reality, it’s the WCW World Tour. Flair says the NWO are entitled to walk there own way, but when it comes down to the best wrestlers in the world, they all represent WCW. Flair says that even though he is out right now, he promises that before it’s all said and done, Flair will have the last laugh. He says at the end of the day the NWO will belong to WCW.
The Giant vs. Jeff Jarrett
This is a rematch from last month’s PPV, in which The Giant won. He didn’t chokeslam Jarrett, so he will be looking to in this match. He is still carrying the WCW United States Championship, even though he didn’t win it.
Jarrett goes right after The Giant with some shots, but he just gets shoved off. Jarrett regroups and uses the speed advantage to avoid The Giant. It only works for a short time, and The Giant takes him down with a clothesline. The Giant throws him into the corner and charges in, but Jarrett moves. He hits a dropkick, but The Giant hits a big boot. He stomps down on Jarrett and hits a scoop slam before hitting a flying elbow. The Giant walks over his chest and hits a chop to the chest. He knocks Jarret to the mat with a shot to the back and throws him into the corner. He starts choking Jarrett with his boot as Sting makes an appearance in the rafters. He starts to make his way down to the ring, as The Giant continues to work on Jarrett. Sting makes his way through the crowd, and The Giant misses a splash in the ring. Jarrett hits a crossbody, but The Giant kicks out at two. The Giant spills to the outside and Sting gets in the ring. He hits Jarrett with a Scorpian Death Drop and leaves the ring. The Giant hits a Chokeslam and pins him after 6:05.
Winner: The Giant
Match Rating: 1.5/5 Stars
Collective Thoughts: That was a quick match with both men getting some offense in. Jarrett had a nice showing here and took The Giant down multiple times throughout the match. The big story coming from this is the unknown allegiance of Sting. He has helped the NWO throughout the last couple of weeks and does here again. This was the beginning of the Sting we know now, and it was a great second coming in his career.
Piper makes his way down to the ring and has a contract in hand. Piper grabs a mic and says there is no sense in waiting and tells Hogan to get down here and get this thing signed. The NWO music hits and out comes Ted Dibiase, Vincent, and Eric Bischoff. Bischoff says that Hogan isn’t there tonight, but that he gave Eric his Power of Attorney. Piper tells Vincent to get out of his face. He calls Bischoff an Eddie Munster look-alike and says that he tries to be cool, but isn’t. Piper tells Vincent to step back again and says that he has been doing this for 28 years. Piper says that he doesn’t trust Bischoff and that he wears a Kilt because he is tough enough too. Piper says how much would his fine be if he knocked Bischoff out right now. Piper says he will fight Hogan next month, but if the NWO gets involved, it stands for “No Way Out”. Piper says that this fight will be one for the ages and tells Bischoff to get Hogan down here. The NWO music hits and Hogan, as well as the rest of the NWO, make their way to the ring. Hogan grabs the mic and says that Piper has a problem now. Piper tells Hogan to get in the ring and sign this contract, and Hogan climbs in the ring. Hogan tells Piper he will sign it, but that Piper has a real big problem on his hands. Hogan says that he is used to dealing with people on his level, but he says that Piper hasn’t been on his level in 10 years. Hogan tells Piper to show people his hip, which is why Piper hasn’t been wrestling for years. Hogan pulls up the kilt to reveal the scar, and Hogan says he usually doesn’t rag on “cripples” but he will make an exception here. Hogan says it’ll be his pleasure to sign the match and take Piper out at Starrcade. Piper punches Hogan, but is soon beat down by the rest of the NWO. Hogan hits Piper with a chair on the hip and takes his leg out with a chop block. He spraypaints NWO on Piper’s leg and spits in his face before they leave the ring.
Collective Thoughts: That was a contract signing on a PPV, that should have been on Nitro. There wasn’t anything wrong with it per se, but I just don’t think angles like this should take up Pay-Per-View time. Piper vs. Hogan will be taking place at Starrcade, but now the questions are about how Piper’s hip is going to hold up. It’s these kinds of angles that gave the WWF ammunition to use against them. This match was a big get for WCW at the time, so if there was a silver lining, this would be it. Good promos by both men, but I am not looking forward to the match.
The Amazing French Canadians (Jacques Rougeau and Carl Ouellet)(w/Col. Robert Parker) vs. Harlem Heat (Booker T. and Stevie Ray)(w/Sister Sherri)
This feud stems from Parker costing Harlem Heat the Tag Team Titles at Halloween Havoc last month and was kicked out of the group. He joined with the Amazing French Canadians to find a team to take them out. Also as an added stipulation, if Harlem Heat wins, Sherri gets to face Parker in a match right after. The French Canadians start to sing the Canadian National Anthem and the match gets underway.
Booker and Rougeau start off the match with a lockup. He takes Booker out with a dropkick, but Booker regains the advantage with a sidekick. He takes in Ray and they double-team Rougeau with a clothesline. Ray tries a clothesline, but misses and Rougeau takes him out before making the tag to Ouellet. He hits a splash on Ray in the corner and attempts a clothesline, but Ray ducks underneath and counters with a belly to back suplex. Booker makes a tag in and hits some offense before making the tag back to Ray. They isolate Ouellet and continue with the double-teams before Booker is back in the match. Rougeau pulls down the rope which sends Booker to the outside and now they are on the offensive. They exchange tags while keeping Booker isolated to their side. Rougeau puts Booker in a Boston Crab and Ouellet comes off the second rope with a leg drop. That looked stiff as hell. Ray comes in and takes Ouellet out which gives Booker enough time to make a tag. Ray is in and he cleans house and takes out both Rougeau and Ouellet. The referee takes a bump and Booker gets thrown out of the ring which allows The French Canadians to double-team on Ray. They bring a table into the ring and the sets of steel steps. They build a tower on the top rope and come off with a big leg drop but there is no one home. Booker hits The Harlem Hangover on the prone Ouellet and they pick up the win in 9:14.
Winner(s): Harlem Heat
Match Rating: 2/5 Stars
Collective Thoughts: This match wasn’t terrible, but wasn’t anything special. Both teams had their chances and there was a lot more athleticism than I expected. The French Canadians held their own, but this was more of an angle building match leading to the showdown between Sherri and Parker. Harlem Heat is a month removed from being WCW Tag Team Champions and should have been kept at the top of that division.
After the match, it’s time for Sherri and Parker to go one on one. This only goes for about a minute, but Sherri hits him with a clothesline and a splash before The French Canadians pull him out of the ring. I will note that Dusty Rhodes was losing his mind over this interaction.
The announcers talk about Piper and Hogan at Starrcade before shooting to a commercial for the show.
Gene is backstage and he shills the hotline before he is joined by Lex Luger. He talks to Luger about Sting and what he makes of their relationship. Luger says that he doesn’t know where Sting’s head is at, but it smells of the NWO. Luger says that he has been waiting to see what Sting’s intentions are, but has been left out. Gene says that Luger is a favorite in the battle royal tonight and how he feels going into it. Luger says it’s time to return the title to WCW. Gene throws it back to the ring.
WCW Cruiserweight Title Match
Dean Malenko (c) vs. Psychosis
Malenko won the title last month at Halloween Havoc in a classic match with Rey Mysterio Jr.
Psychosis takes him down to the mat to start the match with a leg lock. Malenko fights out and slaps on an STF, but Psychosis gets to the ropes. He rolls Psychosis up, but he kicks out at two. They exchange some offense with neither man gaining the advantage. He locks up Psychosis’ leg an continues to stretch him as Psychosis tries to fight out. Psychosis gets back to his feet and hits a Spinning Heel Kick that sends Malenko to the outside. He climbs up top, but slips off and goes face first in the guard rail. Oof. Malenko capitalizes in the ring with a knee drop and starts to work on the neck of Psychosis. He hooks Psychosis in a double underhook powerbomb and goes for The Texas Cloverleaf, but he gets to the ropes. Malenko dropkicks the knee and ties him up in the ropes. Psychosis goes outside to regroup, but Malenko punches him and keeps him grounded. Psychosis gets a kick to the gut and hits a backbreaker on the floor. He climbs to the top and hits a senton that takes Malenko out on the floor. He rolls him back in the ring and hits a dropkick that sends Malenko to the corner. He puts him on the top turnbuckle and hits a Hurricanrana, but can’t pick up the win. Psychosis attempts a suplex, but Malenko rolls him up for a near fall. Psychosis picks him up for a Tombstone Piledriver with both men reversing it until Malenko hits the move for a two count. Psychosis leapfrogs him, but Malenko rolls him up and picks up the win at 14:33.
Winner and STILL WCW Cruiserweight Champion: Dean Malenko
Match Rating: 3/5 Stars
Collective Thoughts: The match was good, but nowhere near the match that Malenko and Mysterio had last month. The beginning of the match started really slow with Malenko stretching Psychosis for all he was worth. Psychosis had that scary bump to the outside, but other than that the match was pretty fluid. Malenko was a hell of a wrestler in this era and will probably go down as one of the more underrated workers in the business. Chalk one up to another solid cruiserweight match.
They show replays before jumping right back into the next match,
WCW Tag Team Title Triangle Match
The Outsiders (Scott Hall and Kevin Nash) (c) vs. The Nasty Boys (Jerry Sags and Brian Knobbs) vs. The Faces of Fear (Meng and The Barbarian)(w/Jimmy Hart)
The Nasty Boys hit the ring quickly and throw Hall and Nash to the floor. The Barbarian and Meng make their way to the ring and starts taking on Nash before rolling him in the ring. All six men are in the ring at this point, with Nash crawling to the outside to regroup. The Nasty Boys and The Faces of Fear start pounding on each other as Hall and Nash stalk everyone on the outside. The Barbarian works Knobbs into the corner, but Knobbs takes him down with a clothesline. He makes the tag to Sags, and they both hit The Barbarian with a double clothesline. Meng comes in to make the save and both men start working on the freshly tagged in Knobbs. Meng hits a clothesline and comes off the ropes, but Nash makes a blind tag and punch Meng. Nash works Knobbs into the corner with some knees before tagging in Hall. He hits an elbow and tags in Meng and taunts him a little bit before getting out of the ring. The Barbarian tags in and sends Knobbs into the ropes, and Hall makes a blind tag. He gets in the ring and starts punching The Barbarian in the corner. The Barbarian reverses and hits Hall with a splash in the opposite corner. He hits Hall with a scoop slam and stares at The Nasty Boys on the apron. He makes a tag to Meng and he continues the assault on Hall. Hall makes a quick tag to Knobbs and all hell breaks loose. All six men get in the ring with Knobbs and The Barbarian being the last ones in the ring. They exchange blows before Knobbs tags in Sags and he hits a Piledriver on The Barbarian. Nash makes another blind tag and starts an exchange with The Barbarian. He hits a Sidewalk Slam and covers him for a two count. Hall makes a tag in and hits The Barbarian with a shot to the midsection. He pounds on him in the corner, but The Barbarian reverses course and gets Hall in the corner. He tags in Meng who hits a big move and picks up a very close near fall. Meng tags in Knobbs and now the legal men are Knobbs and The Barbarian.
They lock up with Knobbs working him into their corner and Sags joins in on the double team before tagging back in. The Nasty Boys exchange a few more tags and continue to isolate The Barbarian. Hall tags back in the match and just stomps away on The Barbarian. Both men make tags to their respective partners and all for men start going at it, as The Nasty Boys just watch from the apron. Nash throws Meng into the corner and charges in with a clothesline. He hits a scoop slam and goes for an elbow, but Meng rolls out of the way. Knobbs makes a blind tag as Meng tags in The Barbarian and both men go in on each other. Sags gets a tag in and hits a backbreaker for a two count. The Barbarian reverses a clothesline and takes Knobbs down with one of his own. Meng comes in and starts going to town on Sags, and knocks him in the corner. Hall with another blind tag and he is met with an atomic drop. Meng and Knobbs tag back in and start going after each other. In comes The Barbarian, and he starts trading blows with Sags. Knobbs and The Barbarian tag both Hall and Nash in which makes them the legal men. They try to tag out, but both teams get off the apron. Nash lays down and Hall covers him, but it’s interrupted. All six men are in the ring, and Knobbs knocks Jimmy Hart off the apron. Hall grabs the megaphone and hits Knobbs in the head with it. Nash follows that up with a Jackknife Powerbomb and they pick up the win in 16:08.
Winner(s) and STILL WCW Tag Team Champions: The Outsiders
Match Rating: 1.5/5 Stars
Collective Thoughts: This was a mess for the majority of it. Guys would come in the match and get some offense in and tag immediately back out. It was alright from a match standpoint, but it was hard to follow along with. It was a very AEW-Esque tag team match in which it was impossible to know who the legal man was, until the very end. Nash getting Knobbs up in the Jackknife was impressive, and The Outsiders retaining was the right move to continue pushing the NWO.
The announcers talk more about Starrcade coming up next month and talk about the Battle Royale that is coming up next. Dusty Rhodes goes to join Mike Tenay to call one ring, while Lee Marshall and Larry Zbyszko are calling the action from the third ring, while Tony and Bobby will be calling the action from the other ring.
World War 3 Number One Contender Battle Royale
When each ring gets down to 10 guys, they must move to the next ring. So eventually, it’ll be the final 20 guys in one ring. Last year when I covered the event, I ran down everyone in the match. In the interest of not losing interest or my sanity, it’s the entire WCW roster, including guys that have already wrestled on the night.
Benoit and Sullivan start off beating each other up and it brings the rest of the Dungeon of Doom. The Four Horsemen run in and all hell is breaking loose on the outside. They fight into the crowd while the other rings are full of guys trying to throw each other out. Sullivan and Benoit are the focal points and they are wailing on each other amongst the fans. Luger is working over Stevie Ray, but he gets a thumb to the eye. DDP and Bagwell are going at it and DDP tries to eliminate him, but he fights out. Sullivan grabs a 2x4 and starts wearing Benoit out with it. Mike Enos is the first man eliminated which should be a shock to no one. Lee Marshall is absolutely taken out and they tend to him. Eddie Guererro almost gets eliminated but grabs the ropes. Tony Rumble is eliminated as well as a few other mid-carders. Lee Marshall gets back on the headset as Luger is dominating his ring. La Parka gets thrown out by Luger as Duggan and Bobby Eaton start going at it. Scott Norton gets thrown out and The NWO stands and watches everyone else go at it. Mark Starr is thrown out of ring three, and Rage from High Voltage is out right after. Craig Pittman is working on Booker T. in the corner, as The Giant is working his boot on the throat of Joe Gomez. Rey Mysterio and The Ultimate Dragon are going after each other and they are unfortunately in the ring with the rest of the NWO. Joe Gomez is eliminated, as Dragon and Mysterio climb to the top rope. Disco Inferno isn’t thrown out, but it waltzing on the outside of the ring. The Giant and Roadblock are standing face to face, but it doesn’t last long and The Giant throws him out. Ring two is consisting of The NWO, Disco Inferno, and Rey Mysterio Jr. Disco goes underneath the rope but is still in the match. Big Ron Stud is getting taking on by everyone in the ring and takes splashes in the corner. They all try to pin Stud, but obviously it doesn’t count. Duggan is fighting with The Amazing French Canadians after all three men are eliminated together. Bagwell and Scotty Riggs have some friction when both of them are eliminated. Wallstreet is eliminated with Scott Steiner and Dave Taylor. They start migrating into the other rings, as Mysterio and Dragon are still going at it. All three rings coverage and we are down to the final thirty men. DDP and Guerrero are beating on each other on the outside, but both men are still in the match. Hall and Nash start double-teaming on Craig Pittman. Jack Boot is next to be eliminated and he is soon followed by Johnny Grunge and they start fighting on the outside.
Luger almost eliminates The Giant, but he stays on the apron. Jeff Jarrett throws Malenko out and Booker T. is right behind him. Disco Inferno skins the cat and stays in the match with some nice athleticism and Kevin Nash immediately throws him out. Mysterio eliminates Dragon and almost gets thrown out himself, but saves himself. Jericho is out of the match after being thrown over the top and we are narrowing down the field. Rick Steiner is out, but comes back in the match to fight the NWO. We have a showdown in the ring between members of WCW and The NWO. We are down to the final 10 men in the match which are Nash, Hall, The Giant, Syxx, DDP, Luger, Regal, Guerrero, Mysterio, and Jarrett. The Giant and Jarrett continue their feud from earlier, and Guerrero is thrown out by Regal. The Giant picks Mysterio up with one hand and tosses him to the outside. That was outstanding. Jarrett is out next and is soon followed out by DDP. Regal and Luger are the remaining WCW guys. The NWO eliminates Regal and soon turn their attention to Luger. He charges in and takes on all four men. He gets The Giant on the turnbuckle and picks him up in the Torture Rack, but Syxx takes him out with a kick. Luger throws out Hall and Syxx and hits Nash with a clothesline. He racks Nash and sends him over the top rope, but he is quickly eliminated right after by The Giant. The whole thing went 28:15.
Winner: The Giant
Match Rating: 1.75/5 Stars
Collective Thoughts: When you have a mass of humanity in a match like this, it’s hard to rate it. Putting all the members of the NWO in a single ring was good for story purposes, but that ring didn’t have much going on in it. It looked like Luger might pull one out in the end, but The Giant outsmarted him and threw him over while he was throwing Nash out. There were a lot of guys, like Regal, Guerrero, and DDP, that had a strong showing and lasted longer in the match than anyone expected. It was the same as last year in the sense of until you get down to the final 10 or so, you just have a mass amount of people.
Heenan oversells the show as “The Greatest Pay-Per-View I have ever seen.” A little bit of a stretch there, Brain. Fireworks go off as The NWO regroup in the ring and The Giant will now face “Hollywood” Hogan for the WCW Heavyweight Title. They continue celebrating in the ring as the show goes off the air.
Overall Show Rating: 6 out of 10
This show didn’t have anything particularly great on it, but it did have some moments here and there. I thought the two cruiserweight matches were above average, with Mysterio and Dragon really shining to open the show. We had the contract signing for Starrcade between Piper and Hogan which was a big angle at the time, plus the appearance of Sting was a nice touch. Other than that, the matches all kind of fell short. The last two in particular were both a mess. WCW is ramping up to become a wrestling powerhouse, but this wasn’t there strongest outing.
What did you think of WCW World War 3 1996? Loved it? Hated it? Never seen it? Either way, keep the conversation going over @collectiveheel on Twitter and let me know your thoughts. While you’re at it, feel free to check out my podcast network, The Heel Turn Collective. we have shows every Sunday, Tuesday, and an AEW recap show on Fridays. Take care of yourselves, Take care of each other, and wear a mask for the time being. I will be back soon enough with some more Collective Thoughts.