A new feature column we are going to try here on TJRWrestling is called “WWE Discussion.” It’s going to be something where I start up a topic, most likely on my Facebook page, and then ask for the opinions of fans. When I get those reactions, I’ll share a lot of them in a “WWE Discussion” post like this one and also offer my take as well.
Here’s the question I posed to readers this week: Do you like that WWE is trying to get over a superplex as a finishing move for Neville?
Over the past two weeks on 205 Live, Neville has won matches following a superplex, which is a suplex off the top rope. It’s a move that wrestlers have been doing for decades, but it hasn’t been used as a regular finisher for a long time.
The idea behind using the move for Neville is to take away the Red Arrow from him because it was a popular move and a heel shouldn’t do a move that makes the crowd cheer that much.
The wrestler that I most associate it with is Barry Windham, who used it as a finisher in the early 1990s. Bob Orton Jr. (Randy’s dad) also used is as a finisher. When Windham did it he usually went off the middle ropes and did a float over into a pin right after he did it as well. You can see him use it here to end the match.
On Raw we also see Braun Strowman using the Running Powerslam as a finisher similar to Davey Boy Smith using it twenty years ago. What’s old is new again…I guess.
You can watch the superplex leading to the Neville win in this video. On the broadcast, they replayed it a few times while the announcers tried to put it over as a brutal move.
My Take: I’m not a huge fan of it as a finisher. I understand it because it’s a safer move that isn’t going to hurt anybody if you do it right. It’s just hard to expect the crowd to react big to it as a finish when we have seen Randy Orton do the move in nearly every match for over a decade. In six months, when Neville hits that move to win a match perhaps the crowd reaction will be stronger because they are used to seeing it happen. I just think most fans in 2017 are going to think “that’s it?” when they see him win a match with that move.
With that said, I think Neville has done a fantastic job as a heel and I’m just happy he’s back on TV doing something because he spent several months on the sidelines waiting for creative to come up with something for him. I hope it works out well for him.
I guess I’m on the fence at this point. I’m about 50/50 in terms of liking it and not liking it. In a few months if the move is really over as a finisher then I’ll be convinced that it was a great move. However, if he stops doing it in a few months because it doesn’t get a reaction then I feel like my dislike for it is proven.
Here are some thoughts from TJRWrestling readers off my Facebook post on the topic a few days ago. I will put their comments in red and blue font while I will respond to them as well.
I’m not a huge fan of this finisher, or of Bayley and Bobby Roode’s finishers. But as long as people sell them like they just got straight up murdered, then I’ll suspend my disbelief enough for the ref to count to 3.
Fair point. As long as people sell it as a finisher then the fans can buy into anything. After all, Hulk Hogan won with a leg drop for about 20 years.
The only reason I support is because Neville is stronger than the rest of cruisers so it looks better.
That makes sense. The announcers are really trying to drive home that point too.
I don’t mind it. Heyman said give someone a move and make it important and if the wrestler is booked right it can become a move that’s looked at as credible based on the performer and the booking. We are pumped for Neville and that should be the focal point. Braun’s running powerslam isn’t terrible either. He’s huge. It’s safe. It’s sold. It’s believable. No complaints.
Very well said. Heyman has made that point a lot in his career and it’s easy to see what he’s getting at. If we simplify things in wrestling then people are going to buy in as long as you tell them to, basically.
Nathanael N-jay Julien
I wouldn’t have a problem with it if it wasn’t a move that everyone uses and never wins with. Now I’m supposed to believe that only when Neville does the superplex it can pin opponents but no one else?
That’s the counter to the point above and it’s easy to see that perspective as well. Lots of people do the superplex and they didn’t win matches with it. It’s hard to get people to suddenly believe in something new that is really something that’s an old move we have seen for several decades.
Better not see Rollins use it and roll into the Falcon Arrow anymore.
Love that spot. It will be interesting to see if Rollins still uses it or if he’s told to remove it from his arsenal.
Ed Luis Valentin
I don’t like it. It’s a normal move everyone does all the time. At first I thought that maybe it was a brainbuster or something but no, just a regular superplex. I get that the Red Arrow is too much of a babyface move, but couldn’t he alter it to make it look more vicious? Maybe have him land on his opponent’s back instead of their stomach.
I think what prevents them from making it more vicious is a safety thing. It would be nasty looking if they did it in a reverse way.
I like the idea, but it’s going to take time to re-educate the fans that a superplex can be a finishing move. They’ve proven before, if they stick with something and push it enough, they can get over anything as a finisher.
Plus the way Neville does it, maybe because it’s a smaller guy giving it to another smaller guy, and the height he gets, it looks more devastating to me than a superplex from another guy.
I’m not sure if it looks more devastating. The only difference is that WWE is trying to give it more attention. When Randy Orton did it for the last decade they didn’t replay it every time or say that it’s a move that can win him a match.
I’m all for it, but he needs to add something to make it look different. Hitting the superplex and rolling into a pin in one smooth motion? A super fisherman’s suplex into a pin? Running up to the top turnbuckle to counter an opponent’s aerial move? Something to make it different than a normal superplex.
I agree with that. The floatover into a pin is probably the most realistic thing that he could add to it.
I’ve been waiting years to see this damn company realise the potential we all saw in him when he was in NXT. I’ll give them a while to see where this finisher takes him.
In other news: What the hell would you name it??? How about The Last Arrow?
That name sounds good to me. You’re also right about WWE taking a long time to figure out what they have with Neville, so it’s definitely a good thing that he is being used more.
No, I don’t buy it, but it’s better than a punch to the face.
Well said although we did see Big Show use that as a finish in the second half of his career.
I buy it hurting way more then the Attitude Adjustment, which is such a bad finisher.
Cena’s finisher isn’t that impressive looking, that’s for sure. It’s basically a fireman’s carry, but it has beat so many people for so long that people buy it, which is a point others were making.
I think that Neville should have a submission finisher. Maybe a move that ties up the legs and stretches the neck like a bow & arrow move since he was a high flyer as a face he should be the exact opposite as a heel and be a ground finisher.
That makes a lot of sense for a guy that just changed his character. The problem with submission moves is there are a lot less of them and hard to find something that hasn’t been used a lot.
It looks rubbish having a cruiserweight do it. If it was a heavy weight, I think it would look much better.
Rubbish = bad. Even a non-Brit like me knows that! That’s makes sense too. If it’s a bigger guy doing it then you can put over the power aspect of the move more. As others have said, though, Neville is one of the stronger cruiserweights.
I guess it goes back to what Paul Heyman alluded to on the Stone Cold Podcast.
Austin brings up how Jake Roberts used the DDT and people stayed down from it but the DDT isn’t seen that serious today. They talk about how finishers aren’t used how they used to be and Austin asks if guys are out-working themselves these days. Heyman points out Rocky Johnson used to win matches with a dropkick. Heyman does some fantasy booking and talks about how he could book Mark Henry using a headlock as his finisher and get him over by having no one else but Henry use it for 30 weeks or so.
Yeah I remember Heyman saying that. It would get over, but would it be that exciting especially in today’s world with athletes doing some incredible things in the ring? I don’t know if it would work that well.
I just feel someone as talented as Neville can choose from so many different finishers and execute them all to perfection but chooses the superplex? Changing the finisher I agree with, what was chosen I disagree with. Then again it’s not that important, he’s too talented not to get over and be a success, especially in the Cruiserweight division.
He definitely could have picked something else. A big issue is that WWE’s roster is so loaded with talent (well over 100 wrestlers there now) that it’s hard to do something that isn’t already being done in matches.
In the words of Roddy Piper; old school is cool!!
It certainly can be. Rest in peace, Hot Rod.
This is a horrible move. Thought 205 was suppose be cruiserweights that bring excitement. Red Arrow > superplex
That’s a valid point too. I think the 2015 Live show has been good, but not as great as the Cruiserweight Classic was and it’s because they got to do more during CWC matches.
I like it personally. Plus since you need some imaginative thinking when it comes to watching wrestling, I’ve just developed the view that when it comes to certain moves that have become common, the wrestlers who can finish matches with them, have learned how to perfect them and make them destructive. Usos and Young Bucks may do lots of Superkicks but they’ve never mastered it like Michaels or Ziggler recently. Orton and Rollins may do a good Superplex variant but they’ve never mastered it like Barry Windham, Bob Orton or Neville etc.
It’s a good way of explaining it. I just don’t know if the doubters are going to be convinced by it. It’s something the announcers need to put over more.
Stop letting people kick out of finishers so often and maybe some of these “boring” moves would have meaning.
True. I agree with that as much as anything on here.
I think they’re trying to use it as a homage to The Dynamite Kid especially with Neville being similar in size, build & culture.
Good point from Marc, who is one of our TJRWrestling writers.
It’ll take some time for people to find it convincing again. I mean, it’s a Superplex, one of the oldest moves in wrestling. Two years ago Daniel Bryan was doing an inverted version and that was just a transitional move.
I think Daniel Bryan’s name is worth mentioning also because we saw his career end in his mid-30s because of concussions, which were caused by a ridiculous amount of head and neck bumps in his career. A superplex is a move off the top, but wrestlers can do it such a way that it’s safe and that’s what matters the most.
If Neville is going to use the Superplex as his finisher then no one else should use it, including the triple-threat superplex/powerbomb spot. That’ll make the maneuver unique to Neville and help in getting it over as his finisher.
Good point about how nobody else should use it. I’m interested to see if Randy Orton will keep doing it. I think that Orton will because he’s done it for years, but other than him I doubt it’s going to be a regular spot in longer matches. It needs to be protected to help Neville get it over as a deadly move.
I’ll end it there. Thanks to those that took part in the discussion. Feel free to share your thoughts in our comment section below and I’ll try to respond there in the coming days as well.